tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10032287.post9005987985491546275..comments2023-09-08T00:47:50.511-07:00Comments on Naked Reflections: Alan Watts Revealed and ReconsideredStevehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/02549770321948541384noreply@blogger.comBlogger99125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10032287.post-27420692489236687592021-06-15T09:04:44.650-07:002021-06-15T09:04:44.650-07:00Throughout history, messengers, and philosophers ,...Throughout history, messengers, and philosophers , have been imperfect, in other words, human.<br />As Buddha said about his philosophy, if you like it, use it. If it does not agree with you, ignore it. <br />Alan Watts did not encourage adultery or free love in his books. He died as a result of the over consumption of wine. Nobody is perfect. We are all human. profwatsonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14825871981121008822noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10032287.post-31469529022564273042021-06-15T08:12:24.264-07:002021-06-15T08:12:24.264-07:0006/15/2021
"... it's a miracle anyone wa...06/15/2021<br /><br />"... it's a miracle anyone was faithful..."<br />Often, the people commenting about the personal life of Alan Watts are uninformed about the unfaithful & abusive actions of well know Zen Teachers,Tibetan Rinpoches and not just a few Yoga Teachers.<br /><br />The difference to me is simple. I have not yet read anything about Alan hurting people or abusing people. For legal reasons I will not list names BUT the number of Zen Teachers that cheated on their wife and hurt others in their Community is higher than those members of "the aching legs school of Buddhism" care to admit. Currently, a major US Buddhist group is being torn apart due to sexual abuse scandals. There are a few MAJOR Indian Yoga Teachers that were found to be real low lifes.<br /><br />So, all things considered, Alan lived a wonderfully productive life IMO.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10032287.post-12523411628988938092021-06-15T02:02:42.258-07:002021-06-15T02:02:42.258-07:00I think people are being much too hard on him. Cer...I think people are being much too hard on him. Certainly to be faithful is the right way to be, however back during those decades it's a miracle anyone was faithful. People I think are making an example of Alan Watts without considering that free love and all kinds of unconventional behavior was being encouraged.HannahBananahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10299966671560718423noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10032287.post-4853597696093103722020-11-12T10:57:29.559-08:002020-11-12T10:57:29.559-08:00Ed, Wilber would say that, by his definition of &q...Ed, Wilber would say that, by his definition of "spiritual," Adi Da was extremely advanced in his insight but not nearly so much along other "lines" of development. But, if one subscribes to more of an Eknath Easwaranian concept of "spiritual," then one must be highly ethical and developed in most ways to be considered spiritually adept or realized, and Adi Da and Alan Watts, etc. would not pass muster.<br /><br />I personally lean toward the Wilberian view, but you're right that it makes for interesting speculation. Thank you for your perspective.<br /><br />Namaste,<br />SteveStevehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02549770321948541384noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10032287.post-51786911858550294742020-11-10T16:49:07.547-08:002020-11-10T16:49:07.547-08:0011/10/2020
Steve:
Everyone has their favorites a...11/10/2020<br /><br />Steve:<br /><br />Everyone has their favorites and less than favorites.<br />I have read Ken Wilber a few times and watched a few YouTube videos<br />of him. I'll just say he is not my cup of tea.<br /><br />Wilber really admired Adi Da in the beginning.<br />Watching Adi Da videos, its easy to see why.<br />Adi Da was quite articulate. Still, once the inside information was let out,<br />it seems he was more of a great actor: Just my $0.02.<br />I think it was on the back of "Knee of Listening" that Alan Watts wrote a<br />complimentary statement.<br /><br />Alan Watts was a very insightful writer/interpreter/popularizer.<br />Unlike Trungpa, Adi Da, OSHO and others, Watts did not set himself up as a teacher or guru. To that end, he was ahead of the group.<br /><br />There no need here to go into the abuses of San Francisco Zen Center, ZCLA, Shambhala and many others. I do not accept anyone being brilliant and then misleading and often harming their students. Watts, to be the best of my information, did none of this. Though, what he did to himself was not commendable but it was just him.<br /><br />Thanks for your viewpoint.<br />This is an interesting subject to chat about. <br />All the Best, ededhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12776106088515936650noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10032287.post-25285830185550577032020-11-10T16:29:09.772-08:002020-11-10T16:29:09.772-08:00Ed, are you famililar with Ken Wilber's integr...Ed, are you famililar with Ken Wilber's integral model and with other psychological models that say human beings have multiple modes or "lines" of psychological development or intelligence? According to them, someone could be very intelligent or advanced in "spiritual" intelligence, insight, or wisdom while lagging in other lines or modes of psychological development or have pathologies that don't negate their spiritual development but are, in a sense, outside it. Thus, you could have a spiritually advanced guru who psychologically or even sexually abuses his or her disciples, and you could have a spiritual sage who ravages their body with alcohol or other substances. <br /><br />I find this quite a plausible answer to the issue you raise. We humans are complex creatures and not simple organic monoliths. I think Alan Watts clearly had deep spiritual insights that he conveyed via the written and spoken word with unsurpassed brilliance. But also had a serious drinking problem and died younger than many of us would have liked.<br />Stevehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02549770321948541384noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10032287.post-23458037204654190622020-11-10T08:03:38.069-08:002020-11-10T08:03:38.069-08:0011/10/2020
"The thing about alcoholism is th...11/10/2020<br /><br />"The thing about alcoholism is the smarter you are the greater the self deception. The easier it is to rationalise and justify. He was too clever."<br /><br />Alcoholism and drug abuse was rampant in many of the popular Teachers and Gurus that pased.<br />Alan Watts drank heavily.<br />Chogyam Trungpa died of alcoholism related disease.<br />Maezumi Roshi was an alcoholic<br />Adi Da (Franklin Jones) reportedly drank and used drugs.<br />Osho (Bhagavan Rajneesh) was said to abuse pain killers and nitrous oxide.<br />Etc...etc...<br /><br />The real question is WHY these people succumbed to addiction IF they were "Enlighened"? The Crazy Wisdom answer is pure nonsense and is an excuse.<br /><br />While in the Case of Watts and Trungpa, alcohol consumption did not affect their<br />brilliance in the beginning. These are tough questions and sycophants will often dismiss them as evidence of not understanding the profundity of a Teacher/Guru. IT's not that simple IMO. edAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10032287.post-59020201554664165882020-11-10T03:06:14.605-08:002020-11-10T03:06:14.605-08:00The thing about alcoholism is the smarter you are ...The thing about alcoholism is the smarter you are the greater the self deception. The easier it is to rationalise and justify. He was too clever.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10032287.post-89830583430199947032020-09-03T13:12:40.862-07:002020-09-03T13:12:40.862-07:00So if this alcoholism and so called other deviants...So if this alcoholism and so called other deviants are present, it speaks more of our societies and their own shortcomings that in order to 'survive' them one simply relies on coping mechanisms. <br />It may seem very sad thay men are flawed yet who casts the first stones are they any better? AW is indeed at once a genius, a mortal, a one off, free thinker and an inspiration. There it is!Jeffree Skeweshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01897170453813353795noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10032287.post-10278707330294205692019-05-04T14:00:56.500-07:002019-05-04T14:00:56.500-07:0005/04/2019
Sensible people not only listen to the...05/04/2019<br /><br />Sensible people not only listen to the words of "so called" masters but observe them in daily life. It becomes quite clear who is the Master and who is pretending. People appear to be lazy and prefer to latch on to those that promise salvation. Those that present a message that is intellectual and cloaked in some type of ancient wisdom are readily accepted. <br /><br />The internet provides ample evidence of those masters that not only stumbled, fell and took many with them. <br /><br />Sometimes, it best to trust yourself and keep your eyes and ears open. The Tao is not gained through discipline not is it lost through lack of discipline (so it has been said ;) ) Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10032287.post-2066802728021899082019-05-01T16:11:08.849-07:002019-05-01T16:11:08.849-07:00Lighten up yes moral turpitude is a stellar qualit...Lighten up yes moral turpitude is a stellar quality of enlightened Zen masters throwing rocks at Christians like their acts of hedonism and self Centeredness surely are superior to genuine selfessness and generosity and anonymous charity..<br /><br />I don't find how those living in glass houses can throw rocks at a faith I don't practice but know many that aren't like the low life despicably spiritual bankrupt Zen masters out of my home in SF as I was raised Catholic in Irish Catholic family in Boston left religion at 13 years old and live in SF with a lot of egocentric perverted Zen Taoist that have a problem with liarrhea and hypocrisy and should know or be more "mindful" of the asinine assumptions and idiotic character assassinations of more spiritually advanced and open minded people than their intolerant bigoted clique.Dorchester Shakehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05650387150703919241noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10032287.post-81247653948642416132019-05-01T15:52:10.504-07:002019-05-01T15:52:10.504-07:00Not LOVE women he had sex without love but lust.
R...Not LOVE women he had sex without love but lust.<br />Reminded like Frederick P Lenz came to an early end suicide at 48 because there is no wisdom in Zen enlightenment but demonic occult results that manifest the fact the ego didn't die but spirituality in true Western sense of a higher power separate from us and creation is dismissed with certain moral and altruistic principles abandoned for hedonistic and self centered values that pave the way to satori with death destruction eternal damnation.Dorchester Shakehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05650387150703919241noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10032287.post-78964965563515259872019-03-27T19:35:37.541-07:002019-03-27T19:35:37.541-07:00I've read it. It's a fabulous book!I've read it. It's a fabulous book!Stevehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02549770321948541384noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10032287.post-37245353791490587582019-03-26T01:08:55.738-07:002019-03-26T01:08:55.738-07:00"The Wisdom of Insecurity" is one of the..."The Wisdom of Insecurity" is one of the most illuminating (and short) Alan Watts books I have ever read. Go find it.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10032287.post-48827549839716247142018-09-18T23:37:39.089-07:002018-09-18T23:37:39.089-07:00The most I've ever felt the "oneness"...The most I've ever felt the "oneness" with the "universe" (minus psychedelic drugs) was in the deep and painful throes of depression. Ego and anxiety had what seemed to be the maximum hold on me, then for a moment all thought would cease and I remembered what I forgot, and I saw beauty, and I felt totally at peace. This only ever lasted for a brief moment and soon I was back in my thoughts and depressed again. What I've always understood from Watts lectures was that he spoke of seeking enlightenment as something of a fools errand. It think he spoke sarcastically of gurus having vices to keep them from ceasing to manifest. Perhaps it's just my take, but he always seemed to talk of the Masters having this understanding that attaining enlightenment meant solving an insoluble problem. So my take is, there is no answer and there is no enlightenment, and that somehow is enlightenment.<br /><br />Can't say exactly how this is related to alcoholism, or if an alcoholic can offer wise words. Perhaps we can thank alcohol and infidelity, maybe without it Watts would have ceased to manifest. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10032287.post-77559163753295250802018-05-19T09:32:26.911-07:002018-05-19T09:32:26.911-07:00Or that he was telling the truth for once.Or that he was telling the truth for once.Supermac74https://www.blogger.com/profile/15439502830485369061noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10032287.post-56303492946372685462017-12-20T19:05:09.883-08:002017-12-20T19:05:09.883-08:00I think he was torn between eastern philosophy and...I think he was torn between eastern philosophy and religion and Christianity, perhaps I may be wrong... But I know that for myself, I struggle with my existence, and I struggle between Christianity and eastern philosophy... I drive myself insane and almost to alcoholism and cigarettes because I can't decide on which one or which combination or whatever... Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10032287.post-76121649325789524522017-12-17T17:42:25.732-08:002017-12-17T17:42:25.732-08:00Alan Watts, from the grave, so to say, is a wonder...Alan Watts, from the grave, so to say, is a wonderful youtube counterpoint to Jordan Peterson, who for all his psychological insight is a conservative ideologue and thus too insistent on the darkness of existence (he's also an apologist for capitalism, making him something of a phony conservative...). I deeplay appreciate Watts' hopeful, ironic, forgiving yet relentlessly honest Buddhism. dukeofpallmallhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00753429045648886175noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10032287.post-28031321122494005762017-08-28T09:47:56.167-07:002017-08-28T09:47:56.167-07:00From my readings of the Bible, God has used imperf...From my readings of the Bible, God has used imperfect vessels to convey his message. Alan Watts had "personal problems" and was imperfect, like so many preachers and priests(he was a priest), but that should not distract from the message. As Buddha said, "if it works for you, try it, if not, forget it"(greatly paraphrased). profwatsonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14825871981121008822noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10032287.post-64400457835097892052017-07-01T05:18:43.334-07:002017-07-01T05:18:43.334-07:00Ed,
Thanks for your comments. This is me lighten...Ed,<br /><br />Thanks for your comments. This is me lightened up ;)<br /><br />Lying, dishonesty, cheating, misleading, stealing- these are universally known characteristics and may have inspired the maxim "do unto others as they would have done unto you" a central tenet in many religions, seeing how these behaviours undermine civility. No doubt I've got some Judeo-Christian issues, I am western after all. And, It is true I have no idea how Alan "really" lived his life, but Alan is an archetypal figure here, substitute Alan for anyone who professes one thing and does another. He said one thing that had certain hopes imbued in it and it appears he sometimes did the opposite according to sources close to him. I am not judging Alan, or anyone, I am only wondering about what is truth. Living my truth may be to be an alcoholic, cheating and lying man... but what impact does that have on others? Others I made a commitment to? What impact on others peripherally involved? On his community? on his message? And, on himself? The more relative truth is the more dissonance, like "alternative facts". <br /><br />If the universal underlying truth of all reality is Love and Peace, as many conject, how should this manifest in our daily lives? In the extreme ultimate reality, nothing matters. we're here for a blip of a second. So, does that mean screw it all? go to wallstreet, make millions on subprime mortgages, do lots of cocaine, get married, have some kids, screw some prostitutes, steal some money from your family, buy a corvette, go to vegas and gamble your kids college fund, hawk your wedding ring, divorce your wife, marry a girl half your age, have some more kids, retire in florida. The end. Life well lived. ? Does the message of our life matter?Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01012787675119631388noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10032287.post-57562805665190595222017-06-30T13:34:54.796-07:002017-06-30T13:34:54.796-07:0006/30/2017
"... What do you think about Alan...<br />06/30/2017<br /><br />"... What do you think about Alan being married and cheating on his wives?..."<br /><br />Lighten up Ben.<br />Your "Buddhism" sounds like Fundamentalist Christianity without Jesus.<br /><br />Unless you knew Alan personally, as in being an intimate friend, you have no idea of how he really lived his life. His extensive work speaks for itself.<br /><br />I get the impression that you've got some ol' Judeo-Christian morality issues to clear up. <br /><br />Even truth is relative.<br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10032287.post-34517991913472841502017-06-30T05:22:31.580-07:002017-06-30T05:22:31.580-07:00Ed- which "infamous Zen Masters of old" ...Ed- which "infamous Zen Masters of old" do you refer to? I read about the 7 sages. Are there others? What do you think about Alan being married and cheating on his wives? Is even breaking one's word and commitment allowable in the One Mind? If I am all and all is me is me breaking my word or commitment to myself a transgression of myself? That would seem to be dualism right there... if there is only one then saying one thing and doing another, is that dichotomy, dualism? Anita Moorjani says we should laugh as much as possible, be true to ourselves and passions in life. I don't mean the stone buddha as the ideal but what is the "ideal" expression of the One here in this manifestation... maybe I just answered my own question, maybe it is simply expressing and letting go of judgment on what that looks like. However, expressing in a way that hurts others seems to cause internal suffering too... if the purpose is the experience of joy then expressions that contradict that might be misguided.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01012787675119631388noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10032287.post-29488670387802741502017-06-29T13:20:34.279-07:002017-06-29T13:20:34.279-07:00"... Is the way he lived his life his real me..."... Is the way he lived his life his real message?"<br /><br />Yes, absolutely!<br /><br />The popular idea of a Buddha or Enlightened person is a sex-less, emotion-less person that is also a strict vegetarian. The popular Zen description for this is a "Stone Buddha". Such a person is not human.<br /><br />Alan Watts ate all kinds of food, drank all manner of alcoholic beverages, LOVED women and enjoyed smoking. He was human in every sense of the matter.<br /><br />This might be a good time to take that leap and read about the lives of the great Mahasiddhas of Tibet, the Tantrics of India and some of the more infamous Zen Masters of old. These people were fully human -and- fully awake. There is no limitation to the expression of the Awakened State. Enlightenment, to some, is a condition prior to everything and not dependent on anything. Alan Watts was fully human and to some but certainly not most, an expression of an Awakened Life. Sometimes people focus on his human "shortcomings" as if this is something negative and indicative of Alan not being fully liberated. To me, this is an indication of not being well read in the Traditions that interested Alan and came to mold his life. Being liberated is being TOTALLY released from all constraints of being, behavior and most importantly the opinions of others. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10032287.post-1799946237770754832017-06-29T06:11:06.624-07:002017-06-29T06:11:06.624-07:00"...How does this mesh with the non peaceful ...<br />"...How does this mesh with the non peaceful life he lived?..."<br /><br />Interesting viewpoint.<br /><br />A life of contradictions - maybe.<br />A life of apparent excesses - possibly.<br />There is no evidence in Alan's writing or in those about him that he was not<br />peaceful. There are a number of personal stories on the internet where people meeting him were surprised by his calmness and silence. <br /><br />Alan was a great contributor to the growth of the SF Zen Center and its various endeavors. Suzuki Roshi while not approving of Alan's drinking, called him a<br />"Great Bodhisattva" when someone criticized Alan.<br /><br />I sure would like to know where you see evidence of "non peaceful" aspects within Alan's life.<br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10032287.post-74409825014695319602017-06-28T13:53:44.430-07:002017-06-28T13:53:44.430-07:00The idea of him is still discussed... and what a b...The idea of him is still discussed... and what a big idea he is for me- my interpretation of his message is primarily one of "peace within". How does this mesh with the non peaceful life he lived? I read that they felt it necessary to sage his house in Mount Tamalpaise because some thought he was a vile man... He is a contradiction, like many spiritual teachers. What feels at risk his my hope in his message, my hope for a durable inner peace. it is an interesting thing to consider.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01012787675119631388noreply@blogger.com